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Post by bertrand on Jun 26, 2014 12:13:56 GMT -8
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Post by ggpguy on Jun 27, 2014 16:20:35 GMT -8
Ok stupid question - in the rules it has three pieces for each player - a knight a pawn and a checker King - where do the plain checkers pieces come from, please?
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Post by alandau on Jun 27, 2014 19:11:01 GMT -8
The non-king pieces are from Connect Four. They're dropped from the top of the game board.
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Post by danialgoodwin on Jun 27, 2014 19:26:56 GMT -8
Awesome game! This is my first time hearing of TTCC4. alandau, thank you for the explanation, I was thinking that the Connect 4 pieces could be "dropped" meaning "placed" on any square in the middle three columns. Without that Connect 4 dropping restriction, that just helps white/red win even more. One possible victory: king moves left-down to b3(?). Then, black doesn't have a winning move. So, white/red king can capture c4 to win. I hope I understood the rules correctly. I would definitely like GGP.
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Post by CT on Jun 27, 2014 19:58:59 GMT -8
Assuming no answer by black is allowed.
White knight moves to center: a) Black knight captures center ->white knight regenerates on left and captures black piece on left tic tac column for 3 in a row. b) Black knight doesn't capture center -> white pawn captures bottom left corner of tic tac box for diagonal three in a row.
If black is given the chance to answer, the game becomes much more complicated and I don't see an end. And the winning scenario given seems to support that black isn't allowed to answer.
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Post by Steve Draper on Jun 28, 2014 5:07:46 GMT -8
Actually I dislike this game. Between strong players it has a tendency to get into situations where both players repeat moves to an eventual draw too often. Since it doesn't terminate until move 100 in such cases it takes a LOT of time to play for relatively uninteresting draws quite often. It really needs a max-repetitions count, but encoding such a rule in GDL is hard.
Indeed in general it is impossible (or at least infeasible??) to encode 'a move that would result in a repeated state is illegal' (which is something you would ideally want to do in Go incidentally, at least with Chinese rules). Doing so requires reasoning about the state, which necessarily involves the addition of meta-state, which logically sits outside of the game rules. In principal that can be encoded into a metagame (i.e. - expand the GDL model by adding a meta-layer whose job it is to track the state of the inner-game to monitor repetitions) with expanded GDL. However, in practice GDL does not lend itself to such encodings (at least for propnets you'd need a ground proposition for every possible inner game state!).
As a possible addition to GDL an explicit maxStateRepeatCount specifier would be useful to address this (a player can easily monitor that with a list of antecedent states as it expands the tree, and using something like Zobrist hashes this can be made fairly efficient [subject to accepting errors at an arbitrarily low rat governed by the hash size anyway]).
In a slightly more limited possibility, you could consider a slightly more restricted primitive illegalRepetitionScope(maxTimes, numTurns) which makes moves illegal that would cause more than a certain number of state repeats within a certain number of turns (the turn scope limit means what needs to be stored can be reduced to a small window)
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Post by bertrand on Jun 28, 2014 9:48:19 GMT -8
Oops, it seems you are totally right. I didn't want to use the checker pieces for this game, so I let them in their starting position. What a careless mistake. But you are indeed 100% right!
If black is given the chance to answer, the game becomes much more complicated and I don't see an end. And the winning scenario given seems to support that black isn't allowed to answer.
I am unsure but what you mean by "no answer by black is allowed". Here, you indeed make black answer ("Black knight captures center"). And the move you described is indeed the winning move I had in my mind (the other alternate possibility being "knight takes connect 4 piece", and exactly the same process works)
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